Deep insight about 9/11

You are here LaRouche Discusses 9/11 Attack As It Unfolds July 11, 2007 The following interview was conducted on September 11, 2001, between Jack Stockwell, morning radio host on K-TALK radio in Salt Lake City, Utah, and 2004 Presidential candidate Lyndon LaRouche.

It was on the air from 7:15 to 9:00 A.M., Mountain Daylight Time. Stockwell: Well, I'm still sitting here looking at this incredible picture, this incredible image in front of me of this burning World Trade Center, as these two jets have just slammed.

One jet has slammed into each of the two towers. So, we'll go ahead, and I'm going to go ahead and get my guest on here with me. Mr. LaRouche. LaRouche: Yes. Stockwell: Good morning, sir. LaRouche: Good morning, Jack. Stockwell: Well, what a pleasure and an honor to have you back on my program again.

I was hoping to move the discussion initially with what we were going to do here into the area of the sublime. LaRouche: Yes, right. Stockwell: But now, with what has just happened in New York, with this—you know, interesting enough. Just yesterday, I received—I think it was just yesterday—a bundle of leaflets from your organization in Leesburg that I regularly pass out in my office warning of terrorist attacks in America here very shortly.

LaRouche: Yes.

Stockwell: And here we have the morning that you're on my program, what's happening in New York at the World Trade Center. I don't know if you've seen these images or pictures yet on the television.

LaRouche: I haven't yet. I was just sitting up here working, and just heard about it before I went to call you.

Stockwell: Yes. Well, the smoke is billowing out of the one tower here. My wife called me a moment ago. And apparently they caught, live, on film, the second jet smashing in to one of the other towers.

LaRouche: Obviously, this is not exactly an accident.

Stockwell: No, sir. I don't believe it is.

LaRouche: I mean, it's not a coincidence. It's obviously—this is so remote in probability that there has to be intention in this thing.

Stockwell: Well, it's one thing for somebody to strap on a jacket made of dynamite and walk into a diner in downtown Jerusalem. It's another thing to jump inside of a Lear jet and go smashing in the side of a building like that. LaRouche: The thing you have to look at, and the context in which this is occurring, is two things.

First of all, the first suspicion that's going to be on this is Osama bin Laden. That name is going to come up prominently, whether as suspicion or just suspicion.

Stockwell: Certainly.

LaRouche: And the second thing, which is not unrelated to the Osama bin Laden question, is this festival which is planned—really a terrorist festival for Washington, D.C.

Stockwell: At the end of the month. LaRouche: Yes. We have a global process. Look, the financial system's coming down. That's always a dangerous thing. Because when the entire system is being shaken up the way it is now, by the finacial collapse, political things happen, because various people try to intervene and orchestrate events by spectacular interventions, which will change, shall we say, get public attention off one thing and put it on another.

So, this is obviously—I mean, I cannot draw a conclusion, except the circumstances tell me something rather evil is behind this thing.

And I don't know which, but they're both connected, because I know the Goldsmith brothers—for example, Jimmy Goldsmith was key in helping to create—he's now deceased—Osama bin Laden and people like that.

The Taliban and so forth. And at the same time, his brother, Teddy Goldsmith, who is still very much alive, is sort of the spiritual godfather of this movement which is planning to inundate Washington, D.C., with some pretty nasty stuff at the end of this month.

Stockwell: Something to a much greater degree than what happened in Seattle.

LaRouche: Oh, absolutely. This thing went from Seattle—Seattle was basically a terrorist operation. But, you know, if you look at the history of how terrorist operations are run, you would run a hardcore terrorist operation.

And around it, they would run sympathizer operations which were not necessarily wittingly connected to the terrorist operation.

But they were run and coordinated simultaneously. In Seattle, you had the so-called legitimate protest, wihch was largely trade union-backed.

But into the same scenario, you had coming out of Canada, based in Canada—and the Canadian-U.S. border is rather leaky, you know. And they were coming across in droves over there to do funny things.

Then you had the operation, a conference in Porto Alegre, Brazil, just a short time ago, which Teddy Goldsmith chaired. And this cuts into the people who are generally the ambiance of international terrorism.

Then, from there, from Genoa, they went to some other things. But the big thing—from Porto Alegre to Genoa, where they staged an upscale terrorist operation.

Now, from what I know of the details of the terrorist operations being prepared in Maryland and Virginia for Washington, D.C., where they're being prestaged, this is intended to be much bigger than Genoa. So, what you have is a challenge to the integrity of the nation's capital, of what is ostensibly the most powerful nation—a nuclear power—on this planet. And that is not funny.

Stockwell: If you can—the FBI is now saying that a plane was possibly hijacked for this attack. If you can do that with the World Trade Center, what could you do with the White House?

LaRouche: Absolutely. I've been very concerned about this. You know, I'm not very sympathetic with what some of these agencies do. But I'm concerned, not just as a presidential precandidate. But I'm concerned with the security of the United States and the peace of the world. And this is not good for the health of the nation or the world.

These things should not happen. And we could prevent this kind of stuff. But we just don't do it, because, I don't know. Someone says let it happen.

Stockwell: How would you prevent terrorist activity?

LaRouche: Well, the thing is, if you don't—if you dispense with the myth that there are a number of unknown people out there coming out of the mists, and nobody knows where they come from, then you would say, How can you stop the terrorist operations?

If you know how the world is actually organized, you know you cannot organize a sustained preparation for terrorist operations in any country without the backing of a powerful government, or governments. So that, if you know what the operation is—and I would say, you know, I have been warning against this Teddy Goldsmith operation all along, because I know what it's connected to politically. It's extremely dangerous.

And if I had been President, or in a similar position during this period, I would have had an all-out, very discreet, but very all-out and effective discussion with some other governments in the world, and we together would have taken appropriate steps to try to neutralize this kind of danger.

Of course, you can't be 100 percent in this sort of thing. But you can do a pretty good job. And two planes. Now, that's pretty big. That's—one plane, that might not be preventible. But two in the same short — No, that's not small-time stuff.

Stockwell: No, this is pretty serious. Hold on a second here, Mr. LaRouche. I have a traffic update I need to give my listeners. Thanks a lot, Don. Lyndon, is there any reason to assume that this would be something other than Osama bin Laden?

LaRouche: Sure. There are many. Osama bin Laden is a controlled entity. Osama bin Laden is not an independent force. Remember how he came into existence.

Osama bin Laden was a wealthy Saudi arabian. Back in the 1970s, during the Carter administration, or shall we say the Brzezinski administration, the idea of running an Afghanistan war on the borders of Soviet territory was cooked up by Brzezinski as a geopolitical operation. Well, Brzezinski was responsible. He didn't necessarily cook it up. But all right. This thing started, and an Anglo-American unit, running together with a certain section of the Pakistani military, the funny-funny boys in the Pakistani military, set up this operation.

The United States government and British government and others—that is, our funny-funny boys—went out and recruited a lot of Islamic people to fight communism and defend Holy Islam, and so forth.

That sort of line. They recruited in many countries. And they deployed them. Now later, they killed some of the same people they deployed. You know, they're expendable.

So they don't really have an insurance policy that goes with their recruitment. But they were recruited. Osama bin Laden was one of the big funding agents of this, a funding conduit which was used by people, among others, then-Vice President George Bush.

This is Iran-Contra, or what's called Iran-Contra, which I've called it by other names which I wouldn't put on the air. So this thing is left behind. And suddenly now we find Osama bin Laden becomes the name.

And Osama bin Laden could not last, the way he's running around, if he didn't have big protection. And it's not just from a section of the Pakistani government or Afghanistan.

It's from other governments who would like to see the effects that Osama bin Laden produces thrown around. So, now you can blame Osama bin Laden. At some point, you go in and kill him, and you say the problem was solved. But you never considered who sent, who created Osama bin Laden, and who protected him, and deployed his forces and name for these purposes.

And as we saw in terrorism in Italy in the 1970s, for example, the people who were running the so-called terrorist operations in Italy, ware not really the groups that had the credit for it.

They were actually runaway NATO asset organizations at a very high level. The same people that killed the former prime minister Aldo Moro in that period. So, in a case like this, don't assume that the popular names that everybody knows, or that the FBI quotes and so forth, that this is the real problem.

They may be part of the problem. Stockwell: Well, our mind, especially in our degenerating Western culture, always runs for the simple answer. We want the kind of answer that will free us from our guilt and our responsibilities of the neglect of our government and our fellow man all these years.

And so, we run to the simplistic. And the simplistic, of course, is there; he is, the big, bad bogey man from the Middle East, who has caused us so many problems before. And I certainly understand what you're saying there, that the more simple we can make the presentation, then the less obligated any of us are.

Anyway, why would they be doing this? I mean, is there some—I mean, here we have a market crashing. We don't just have a market crashing. We have an entire economy crashing within the arena of a culture that's crashing.

LaRouche: Yes. Stockwell. We are—if war, massive war were to break out in the Middle East any second, nobody would be surprised. If Putin were to be assassinated, if Arafat were to be assassinated, if Sharon were to be assassinated, nobody would be surprised. I mean, we are sitting on powderkeg of powderkegs.

And with all of the other provocations that could occur around the world to stop a lot of the economic unity and development that is beginning to gain some momentum between the large powers on the other side of the planet, why in the world fly a jet in the World Trade Center?

LaRouche: This is to create a provocation inside the United States. I mean, that's the only reason that would be done. As you probably know—for example, stories may come out that this is done by some Arab group which is protesting the U.S. government's sympathy for Sharon, or for the Israeli Defense Force. I don't know if the Israeli Defense Force are going to kill Sharon tomorrow, I mean, because there's real conflict there. And these guys tend to shoot, then think.

But some story like that. But what we're into is a period where the word is not terrorism.

Terrorism is a part of the picture. The word is "destabilization." The problem part, from my standpoint, is, look at our own government. And we are, in a sense, still sort of a superpower. I think the term is probably not quite appropriate for our present state of affairs.

But we used to be a superpower, and we still have a dominant position in the world. But what kind of a government do we have? Well, the Bush administration. And the thing was crashing, you see poor Secretary O'Neill babbling around.

You see Rumsfeld has become a joke in his own Defense Department.

Stockwell: Well, he's—I think the newspaper slug I—the one I just most recently read, was that he's going to take on the Pentagon.

LaRouche: This is all a sideshow. The point is, President George Bush doesn't function. He's been in there, and as I said, this January 3rd, when I first announced and made a prognosis to what his administration would be, it's been one catastrophe after another.

Nothing he has proposed has actually worked. Some of the things he proposed have been done, but they are disasters. And he's not capable of being a President as such, unless he were controlled by a group of advisers who would give him good advice and solve his problems on how to deal with situations. But he doesn't have that.

He has a nut like Wolfowitz over there underneath Rumsfeld nominally, who's actually running the Defense Department. You have Armitage in the State Department, and similar kinds of things.

These guys as I know them are nuts. And they are nuts in there. Then you look at the Democratic Party. And you have the statement from Daschle, who's the Senate Majority Leader now, saying he can't do anything, it's up to Bush, the President, who Daschle knows can't do anything.

Stockwell: Yes. Well, Daschle is saying—I think he said over the weekened something like, Well, you know, they've got control of the House, and they've got control of the White House. And we have a very slim majority in the Senate, and boy, there's just nothing we can do. LaRouche: Well, he's wrong, and he knows it. Because I've got a certain position in the Democratic Party, despite what Al Gore would like to think. And I could be in a position very easily to steer these guys into doing things that would begin to work, even with the limited strength the Democratic Party has today. And I think that if the Party would do some of those things, we would do two things. We would not only be able to move and shake the population a bit into believing there's somebody up there that might help them, you'd also find a number of Republicans who are not nuts, and who are simply patriotic, and will listen to reason, who would cooperate with the Democrats in doing some of the things we have to do.

We have a vacuum of leadership.

Stockwell: With all of the ills and the evils and the mistakes and the corruption that might have been involved with the Clinton Administration, at least when you called the White House, there was somebody there that would answer the phone.

LaRouche: (Laughs) And especially when Bob Rubin was there helping Clinton out. I may not have approved of what Bob did many times, but at least he was competent.

Stockwell: Yes, exactly. Now we've got a situation where I'm afraid there would probably just be a recording inviting you down to the ranch. Now, there was a recent comment here on the television a few moments ago that Bush would be making comments relative to this terrorist attack.

This is the biggest thing since probably Oklahoma. LaRouche: Much bigger. Stockwell: Well, yes. I think the implications of this will be much bigger.

LaRouche: It's much bigger.

Stockwell: You know, when Oklahoma first happened, the first two or three days—and I remember, I was glued to the television set. The first two or three days, there was a large implication towards the Middle East and the Arabs that were running around town. And then they kind of covered that up, and that was out of the picture, and they never mentioned it any more.

LaRouche: Well, largely, this is a domestic covert operation, which we had word of beforehand. Everybody had the word, and if I had been President, I mean, on the basis of just what I knew, I would have taken certain actions immediately, which would—security/surveillance actions in anticipation of exactly that kind of problem. So, we were not mystified. The problem is that fun and games is being played by various institutions, and we don't have anybody really effectively in charge.

Stockwell: Now, Bush just made a comment. He said, The plane was an American Airlines Boeing 767 out of Boston. And they don't know whether there were any passengers on it or not. They think that it was a hijacked airplane. But a Boeing 767 from Boston was the plane tthat did it. And the President has guaranteed everybody he's going to bring the terrorists to justice. And he's talked to the Governor of New York, and they're going to bring them to justice. And he said, God bless the victims. It's a little late for that.

LaRouche: As a matter of fact, that is the worst thing he can do. If he would have said, "Of course, we are going to go get to the bottom of this, and deal with it in an appropriate way," that would be the right thing to say.

Stockwell: Yes. LaRouche: But to say that he's going to solve the problem by bringing somebody to justice, that is the worst thing he can say.

Stockwell: Yes. Because again, it goes back to—just to underscore what you were saying at the very beginning, that if we can find a couple of guys running around New York right now, trying to get out of town, or Boston, or wherever the thing took place, trying to hurry up and get on the next ship back to Saudi Arabia or whatever, like that was the end of the problem. But as you were pointing out there at the beginning, it's just part of a network, a network that can only exist by the support and the organizational strength of some major superpower on the planet.

LaRouche: I can make a flat statement on that, Jack.

Stockwell: Please.

LaRouche: If I were President of the United States right now, I would have already acted before this happened, not even knowing that this was going to happen. And I would have had the following cooperation. I would have had cooperation from Russia, from Germany, from France, from Italy. I probably would have gotten a good deal from certain forces in Britain as well. And we would have—and Japan, and China. And Arab countries, including Egypt.

And we would have put our heads togehter real quick, pooling our resources, and said, whether we agree on other issues or not, this kind of thing is not going to happen, and we're going to see to it it doesn't. And that would work.

The problem is, you've got the foolish President of the United States— and I say that advisedly. A friend of mine just said in Massachusetts, and he's running for office up there, for a Congressional seat. He said Bush can't even defend his daughters from being bombed.

Stockwell: (Mr. Stockwell laughs.) Well, that took me a second. Bush can't even protect his own daughters from being bombed. Well, out of respect for what's just happened here, still, that's hilarious.

LaRouche: Well, you've got to have a sense of humor even in the worst situation. If you don't, your head is not cool, and your judgment will not be clear. I always advise my friends, the worse it gets, the more laughter you'd better be able to generate. If you haven't got a sense of humor about any situation, no matter how serious — Remember what Roosevelt did? Roosevelt did two things in running for President after the disaster that Coolidge bestowed on Hoover. Roosevelt started his campaign in West Virginia, with the famous statement talking about the Forgotten Man. And then, when he entered office, he addressed the American people with the theme, There's nothing as much to be feared as fear itself. And the key thing—we've got a citizenry, a frightened citizenry, a frightened and confused world, who are in the state of denial, because they're frightened. They wish to deny this crisis.

They wish to believe that the thing is going to bounce back miraculously tomorrow, that suddenly the NASDAQ will suddenly jump out of its grave and suddenly become prosperous again. The time now is needed, to reassure, in particular, the American people that somebody is in charge, that those persons in charge know what they're doing, and they're going to fix the situation, and they will call upoon the American people for support as needed. That would work.

But this kind of thing, of vengeance-seeking and snarling and growling to prove how mad you are, this isn't government. This is side-show.

This is Bozo the Clown putting on an act.

Stockwell: So we've got a situation here where this could just be the beginning, esxpecially with what we've got coming up with the Jacobin terrorist activity that a lot of people are expecting in Washington at this big summit at the end of themonth, because — I mean, we are so vulnerable now. When you were mentioning all these other countries that could get together and stop this, any one of them are vulnerable. But there seems to be an increasing vulnerability within the United States, as we sink deeper into deinal, and bury our heads in the sand, and then go back to the old tried and true methods of fear-based living that we've always done with before, where our millennial fears and our Armageddonist concerns, and all these things, start coming back to the surface. And we get our old barking dog outfits out of the closet, and get them back on again. Incidents like this in the midst of an economic crish, in the midst of a morality crash, could be the beginning of a provocation of some serious setbacks in this country, just from our own Justice Department. Just from—you know, anything like this could get to a situation where we could find our own liberties in this country in serious attack, just because of the level of incompetence that exists in the government in leadership positions, backed up or at least undergirded to some degree, by some very malicious personalities that have been in the Justice Department and Defense Department for decades waiting for the right provocation to occur to move in to their crisis management operations.

LaRouche: And it won't work. The point is, they're idiots. And, you know, I really pity the current President. You know, and you know, I really pity the current President. He's not a friend of mine. His father certainly was not a friend of mine. But, he's President, and I think of him sitting in the office, and I realize the poor man has no conception, and no capability, of understanding what the world situation is, and what is actually hitting him. He's got a Treasury Secretary O'Neill who certainly does not inspire confidence in any sane observer. You've got Wolfowitz who's a nut. You've got Armitage, another nut. You've got problems...

And then you look at the Democratic Party—you see this crazy Lieberman, running around with this faith-based initiative.

This is silly stuff! You see Daschle ducking, bobbing and weaving, so he doesn't take a punch. Here we are in a crisis, a financial crisis, now we have this terrorist thing, which probably indicates that more things are on the way, but maybe of a different variety, but on the way—and we have no leadership.

You have the American people sitting out there, being more and more frightened as this kind of thing occurs, and they look up, and they go into the cockpit to see who's flying the plane that's in trouble, and they find a three-year old kid sitting in the pilot seat, and nobody else there.

That's what our problem is. That's our biggest problem. We have the means to deal with the worst kind of problem that I can envisage is likely to happen now. But if we don't have the leadership, if we don't reach out to the kind of cooperation we could have, that I know I could have, with key parts of the world, other countries, ...

Stockwell: Yes—traffic update... Don, you're on the Stockwell show. Don: Hello. We're getting some other reports here, we want to confirm, regarding some more terrorist activity occurring at other sites.

LaRouche: Really? Don: But I don't want to mention it over the air, because I would like to have that confirmed before I say what somebody just called in and said...

Stockwell: Gee whiz, this is quite a day. What a day! You know, we're sitting out here in the middle of this vast emptiness in the West, and we're removed from the East Coast culturally, we're removed politically, we are removed economically; we've kind of got this Marlboro man attitude out here in the West that: "Well, hell with New York, and they're all a bunch of queers anyway." And, as we go into deeper denial, trying desperately... I have been reporting to my listeners for some time now, every step of the breakdown that I've been able to investigate and report, and get clear in my own mind, of the economic collapse, of the political collapse, and we've seemed to escape it to a large degree.

But now we're starting to have significant layoffs occurring in Utah, and it's finally becoming very real around here, that we aren't a separate people. We're not this unique group of pioneer progeny, that tamed the West, and we can tame any other kind of a problem. We are in the same ship, the ship has hit the iceberg, we don't have enough lifeboats, and what we need right now desperately is a captain who knows how to keep the ship alive long enough, to keep it on the surface of the water. And, as we get more and more of these indications, constantly,... I like the comment that you made there a moment ago, about the NASDAQ jumping back out of the grave—the implication, of course, is that it's dead.

The little kinds of—what, a plane? A plane has flown into the Pentagon. They've had an explosion at the Pentagon now. LaRouche: That's confirmed?

Stockwell: I don't know if that's confirmed or not, it must be coming in from another... What's the source of that? CBS is reporting that a plane has flown into the Pentagon.

LaRouche: I hope that somebody's got some reports of where these planes were coming from...

Stockwell: Well, one of the planes that hit the World Trade Center, was definitely confirmed as an American Airlines 767 hijacked out of Boston. They haven't announced yet whether there was anybody on the plane or not.

LaRouche: Must have been. There must have been. The point is, unless there's really a goofup. Because, how can a plane take off, without clearance? And if it's taking off without clearance, it becomes an immediate security problem.

Stockwell: Yes. ... The Pentagon? It is confirmed now, on several news sources, that the Pentagon is experiencing explosions right now. My goodness!

LaRouche: They mean business!

Stockwell: They're evacuating the White House at the moment, and yes, obviously, they mean business. ...

LaRouche: This is a very systematic operation. If they're snatching planes... if all three of these planes—the two we have from New York and this thing on the Pentagon—to get that kind of thing, to snatch planes like that, that's a pretty sophisticated operation.

Stockwell: Oh, yeah. This isn't a bunch of malcontents, of some grass-roots organization, finally striking back. You're going to have to have some rather heavy-duty intelligence network, and some real intelligence experience with this.

LaRouche: The question is, where were the relevant intelligence agencies which are in charge of monitoring this problem? Now, I've been putting this out for some time—not this, I didn't know this airplane thing, but I assumed almost anything could happen... but on the Washington, D.C. targetting. So obviously, the Pentagon means that this is obviously, clearly a Washington, D.C. targetting. This is obviously intended to imply something coming out of the Middle East.

This means that there's been some kind of either incompetence or fix on the whole security operation, because you CAN'T get this kind of thing without a real goofup, on the security side. So somebody in charge of security was really not very effectively in charge.

You can't go around snatching planes in a coordinated fashion, like this. You can't do it. Somebody has to be really sloppy. Stockwell: Well, we've got... you know. If this were arising from some Middle East effect, it's been almost a year now since the Clintons did their about-face with the Palestinians, in order to secure election for Hillary with the Jewish vote in New York. And ever since then, I don't know what the death count is—between 2 and 3000 maybe, in the Middle East, just because of Hillary's need to get the Jewish vote.

LaRouche: Well, I think that that was something that fell in there.

Stockwell: Well, that's probably true, but then Sharon's march up the Temple Mount stairs...

LaRouche: It's not Sharon. Sharon did, but it's not Sharon's operation. That sort of thing comes from the inside of the Israeli Defense Forces, and that Sharon is virtually a civilized human being compared to some of those guys in there. And I've been afraid that they might kill him, in order to use his killing, as a pretext for using, shall we call, weapons of mass destruction, against places like Baghdad, and Damascus, and Teheran. Stockwell: Were they the forces behind Rabin's assassination?

Stockwell: The same crowd. Absolutely. And there are people in the United States, who politically, in a sense, are authors of the production of some of these nuts, who have been shipped into Israel, to increase the problem there.

Then of course, you have the operation, which is, you have them in the Arab world, you have some of the same people who are running the Israeli nuts, are also running an operation, by recruiting certain Islamic nationals.